Showing posts with label Atonement. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Atonement. Show all posts

Monday, January 16, 2023

Effective Scope of Atonement

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2 ESV)

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Then why are not all men saved? Why does the scope of atonement appear to be limited?

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV)

We are saved by grace through faith.

For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" (Romans 10:13-16 ESV)

The grace of God is upon those who have heard and believed.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16 ESV)

Friday, November 4, 2022

In The Shoes Of Others

Therefore, he had to be like his brothers and sisters in every way, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in matters pertaining to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people. For since he himself has suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted. (Hebrews 2:18 CSB)

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15 CSB)

God put Himself in our shoes, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. He is able to sympathize with our weakness. Are we able to put ourselves in other people's shoes?

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (Philippians 2:5-8 KJV)

Monday, July 4, 2022

Blood of the Covenant

Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, "This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words." (Exodus 24:8 NIV)

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. (Luke 22:20 NIV)

Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. (Hebrews 9:22 ESV)

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. (Leviticus 17:11 ESV)

Sunday, May 30, 2021

Why is Jesus Worthy to be the Savior of the World

What made Jesus worthy to be the Savior of the world?

  1. He is God
    He was the creator of the world (Colossians 1:16, John 1:3).
    He is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15).
  2. He is Man
    He came in the likeness of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3), thus fully human and was born as a servant (Philippians 2:7).
    He came to fulfill the Law (Matthew 5:17) and was tempted in every way just as we are, yet He remained sinless (Hebrews 4:15).
  3. He is qualified to conquer death
    He took the penalty of sin (Romans 6:23) on our behalf (Isaiah 53:5, 2 Corinthians 5:21Galatians 4:4-5Hebrews 7:27, Hebrews 10:12, Hebrews 10:14) and died for the sins of the whole world (Romans 6:10, 1 John 2:2).
    He conquered death (Revelation 1:18) because He was sinless. After He rose from the dead, He never die again because death cannot hold Him (Acts 2:24).

Jesus, by His obedience and death, redeemed for God by His blood, a people from every tribe and language and people and nation (Revelation 5:9).

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. (Colossians 1:15-20 ESV)

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28 ESV)

And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying,
"Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth."
Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice,
"Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"
(Revelation 5:6-12 ESV)

Saturday, December 14, 2019

The Gospel Is Not Always Acceptable

Sometimes it is just absolutely amazing how people find the good news of Jesus Christ unacceptable. Here is a reaction from a Sikh in a YouTube video "Christian Challenges the Existence of Karma!"

QUOTE
I think it is not a good thing we do sins and Jesus paid a price for that. If we do believe him, if we do, then we should never do a wrong thing because from inside we know whatever we doing is wrong or is right. It is the internal voice from our soul, right? But sometimes we turn off the voice of right and turn on the voice of the guilty thing when we do that just because for ourselves.
UNQUOTE

Our problem
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23 KJV)
For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. (Romans 7:19 ESV)

God's solution
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. (Romans 5:6 ESV)
I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. (1 Corinthians 15:3 NLT)

No other way
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6 NKJV)

Monday, November 25, 2019

Unbelief Is Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. (Matthew 12:31 NIV)

Jesus died for the sins of the world. But there is one sin that Jesus did not die for. That is the sin of unbelief. Unbelief is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. We know that a person has committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit when he refuse to believe in the Word of God even when he draw his last breath. As long as he has breath, he can still repent.

Tuesday, October 8, 2019

Why is Jesus Qualified to be the Savior?

And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying,
"Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth."
Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice,
"Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!" (Revelation 5:6-12 ESV)

Good works cannot cancel out sin. But can one be punished on another's behalf?

Suppose a man killed another and he has to pay for the sin by his life. Can he get someone to die on his behalf? No. The person who sins is the one who will die (Ezekiel 18:20).

Suppose a man committed an offence and was fined a huge sum of money. He was unable to pay. Can someone pay the fine on his behalf? Yes. Since only money is required so justice is satisfied.

Money is a creation of men. When money is needed, who can come up with the money? The creator of money, man.

Life is a creation of God. When life is needed, who can come up with life? The creator of life, God.

So what qualifies Jesus to die for the sins of the world?
  1. Jesus is God and the creator of the world. Through Him all things were made (John 1:3).
  2. Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3), thus fully human, to fulfill the Law (Matthew 5:17) and was sinless (Hebrews 4:15).
  3. The wages of life is death (Romans 6:23) but because Jesus is sinless (2 Corinthians 5:21), He paid for our sins once by His death (Romans 6:10) and was able to be resurrected because He was sinless and death cannot hold Him (Acts 2:24).
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-4 ESV)

For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:17 NIV)

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV)

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15 CSB)

Thursday, May 2, 2019

The Main Theme of the Bible - 2

This is the big overview of the Bible - creation, fall, redemption, restoration.

Creation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1 NASB, NLT, NIV)

Fall
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, in this way death spread to all men, because all sinned. (Romans 5:12 HCSB)

Redemption
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. (Romans 5:6 ESV)
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:21 ESV)

Restoration
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. (Revelation 21:1 ESV)

There are many who asked, "If God exist, why are there so much evil in the world?"
The usual conclusions we get are:
  1. God wanted to stop suffering but could not. He is not omnipotent.
  2. God can stop suffering but will not. He is a sadist.
  3. God does not exist. He is just some imagination by men to ease their sufferings.
But the truth which was told by the Bible, the true word of God, is that God had already provided redemption and restoration. It takes time but it will happen eventually.

Read the Bible. In it we were told how the world came into being (creation), how sin came into the world (fall), how God provided the remedy (redemption) and at the end of ages, how God will destroy this current world and recreate a new world (restoration).

The Bible had already told us the end from the beginning. We know that Jesus has already conquered sin and death. The evil in the world today will eventually pass. Complete victory will come. Do you believe?

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. (1 Corinthians 15:20-26 ESV)

Everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:26 CSB)
I am telling you this now, before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe that I am he. (John 13:19 ESV)

Saturday, September 1, 2018

Too Much

But Jesus, aware of this, said, "O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." (Matthew 16:8-11 ESV)

How come there are leftovers? Why Jesus cannot create the exact amount of food to feed the people? This is our idea of a great miracle.

That reminds me of another theological argument on the scope of atonement. If Jesus died for all and some are not saved, does that means that the provisioning for redemption is over provided? If that is true, is it less miraculous? God does not know the exact number of people to be saved in advance?

Wait, if we want to doubt, why don't we go all the way to the beginning? God is supposed to know all things in advance. Why did He create Satan and put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of evil. Didn't He know what will happen later?

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. (Isaiah 55:8 ESV)

Thursday, November 3, 2016

Scope of Atonement

Did Jesus died for all sinners for all sins, or did He died for some sinners for all sins, or some sinners for some sins, or all sinners for some sins?

From the verses that follow, we can come to two non-controversial conclusion for those who believed in the Bible:
  1. The call is universal;
  2. Not all will be saved.
The call is universal.
And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:18-20 ESV)
Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. (Isaiah 55:1 ESV)
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" Let the one who hears say, "Come!" And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely. (Revelation 22:17 BSB)

The motivation is God's desire that all may be saved.
Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? (Ezekiel 18:23 ESV)
For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live. (Ezekiel 18:32 ESV)
Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel? (Ezekiel 33:11 ESV)
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:3-4 ESV)
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9 KJV)

For this purpose, Christ came as the Savior of the World.
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. (Titus 2:11 BSB)
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29 KJV)
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2 ESV)
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners - of whom I am the worst. (1 Timothy 1:15 NIV)
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. (1 Timothy 4:10 ESV)
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14 ESV)

But he who wants to be saved must first believe.
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. (Hebrews 11:6 ESV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16 KJV)

Therefore not all will be saved.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (John 3:18 ESV)
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. (Matthew 7:13 ESV)
Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21 ESV)
For many are called, but few are chosen. (Matthew 22:14 KJV)

It is obvious that many are not even given the opportunity to hear the Good News.
"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." (Matthew 11:21-24 ESV)

Salvation is by the grace of God.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:8 KJV)
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory - even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
(Romans 9:14-24 ESV)

Now we come back to the technical question. What is the scope of Christ's atonement?

All sinners for all sins
If Christ died for all sinners for all sins, then all will be saved. God cannot punish any sinner, since Christ died for all. You may argue that while the atonement is for all, it is only effective when one believes. But since Christ died for all sins, including the sin of unbelief, the atonement is effective even if one does not believe. If you have been fined $100 for a traffic offence and I paid the $100 for you, you will go free, even if you do not believe that I have paid the fine, unless you can make the judge pay back the $100 to me, which means that you believe I have paid the fine for you. Can anyone make Christ not die for him if atonement is for all sinners and all sin? You may reject Christ at the great white throne judgement, but if He had died for you, can God still punish you again for the sins which Christ had already atoned for you? And what about those who have never heard of the Gospel? At the judgement, they can say, "Oh, you mean that pardon is available for me? I will take it now." Then Jesus was telling us lies in Matthew 11:21-24. And what about Ephesians 2:8? Now salvation is through sight and not through faith.

Some sinners for all sins
This is the Calvinist position of limited atonement, that Jesus died only for His sheep.
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. (John 10:11 ESV)
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. (John 6:37 ESV)
And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 5:9-10 ESV)

Some sinners for some sins
I cannot find any scriptural support for this. Can you?

All sinners for some sins
Christ died for all sinner, but not all sins, example, the sin of unbelief. If you refuse to believe that Christ died for you, then you are not saved. then what about those who never have a chance to hear the Gospel? Anyway, where is the scriptural support for this?

Why go through all this exercise? Does it affect a person's salvation? No. But there are always people who like to ask questions and there are also those who want to confuse and there are those who are confused.

The quote below is taken from the website "For Whom Did Christ Die? | doctrine.org", which argued for unlimited atonement.
QUOTE
He receives it by faith. Faith is not a work. Faith is trust in a person. Consider these examples.
  1. Person A tells Person B, "I will meet you at church at 10:00 a.m." Person B trusts Person A and is there to meet him at 10. Is Person B's trust a work? No, it is faith in a person's character and integrity.
  2. Person A tells Person B, "I have a check of $1,000 for you at the bank." Person B does not believe him and does not go to the bank. But the check was there. The check did Person B no good because he refused to trust Person A.
In 1. above, the exercise of the will, belief, is not a work. It is trust. Man's will in trusting Christ - that he died and rose again for his sins - is not a work: it is an acceptance and a dependence upon what God has done for him. In 2. above, while payment has been made, the one who refuses to claim the money made on his behalf receives no benefit. In the same way, Christ's death provides no benefit to the one who refuses to accept God's gift. It remains unclaimed. Let us be clear about the work of Christ. It satisfied the righteous demands of God's justice and solved the problem of sin and death. A person who refuses Christ's work on his behalf does not affect God's justice. It only affects his relationship with God and his benefit.
Consider the following: Did Christ die for Saul of Tarsus? We know He did. Was Saul saved while he was seeking to destroy those who were believing in Jesus? We know he wasn't. When was Paul saved? He was saved when he believed in Christ on the road to Damascus–not before. People are lost not because Christ did not die for them. People are lost because they refuse to trust in Christ's work for them.
Like the mechanics of the atonement, the mechanics of belief are unknown. Several theories exist. Theories can be useful, but in this case, they are not. We simply do not have enough information to understand fully all that was involved and how Christ's sacrifice solved the problem of sin and death. Once the gospel is understood, a person must make a decision. Either he will believe God or he won't. Faith is a choice. We cannot understand fully how the divine will and human wills cooperate. But both are involved.
...
The Scriptures reveal a progressive revelation of the atonement. The Old Testament and gospels revealed the Messiah would die for Jews. The prophets and the gospel writers provided no information about Christ dying for Gentiles. After God saved Paul, God revealed a new message of salvation that included the salvation of Gentiles based upon faith alone. This included the revelation that Christ died for all humankind. Thus, the revelation that Christ would die for all Jews was expanded to the teaching that Christ had died for all mankind. The ascended Christ revealed to Paul the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20.24) that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). As we have seen above, no Scriptural evidence exists to support a case for limited atonement. We have also seen logic cannot support a case for limited atonement. Therefore, the doctrine of limited or definite atonement must be viewed as a theological curiosity based upon incompetent exegesis of the Scriptures and flawed reasoning by inept theologians. It is Biblically unsound and cannot be considered orthodoxy Christianity.
The Lord Jesus Christ solved the problem of sin and death and satisfied the justice of God. While Christ died for all, His death is of benefit only to the one who believes Paul’s gospel. Divine will and human will cooperate in salvation. Exactly how, we cannot know. That is not our responsibility. Our responsibility is to declare God’s glorious gospel (our Great Commission) that Jesus Christ died for all, that God has reconciled the world to Himself, and that He has given believers a ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5.14-21).
UNQUOTE

Added on 01-Sep-2018 for consideration:
But Jesus, aware of this, said, "O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." (Matthew 16:8-11 ESV)

Thursday, June 18, 2015

Muslim Objections to the Biblical Doctrine of Propitiation

Muslims object to the great and central Biblical doctrine of propitiation because they feel that it is unjust. This article "Three Big Problems With The Atonement" found in The Muslim Debate Initiative Blog gave three objections:
  1. It is unjust;
  2. It invalidates the true concept of forgiveness;
  3. It causes problems for the doctrine of Trinity.
Below are some extracts from the article:

QUOTE
Argument no. 1: It is Unjust, Hence Compromising God’s Holy Attribute of Justice
...
Those worthy and deserving of punishment must be treated accordingly and those not worthy and deserving of punishment must be treated accordingly. You cannot have the penal consequences of sins if you are not guilty of those sins. Also, if Jesus wasn't TRULY guilty of the sins he was "punished" for, then that means that the guilt of the sinners weren't TRULY transferred to him and hence we still have guilty people not being judged the way justice demands that they should. And if Jesus is TRULY guilty of the sins that he was "punished" for, then you have a sinful savior and God resulting in the destruction of his holiness.

One may say "Bassam, don't confuse laws that are binding upon us human beings with laws that are binding upon God, for there are no laws binding upon God" I have two responses to that. First, the idea of holding a specific person accountable and guilty for his sins and not transferring the guilt to someone innocent is in and of itself a Biblical motif. Ezekiel 18:19-20 states:

19 "Yet you say, 'Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?' When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Secondly, it is true that God is not judged by laws but that doesn't mean that He isn't necessarily good by nature. If he wasn't then God would be able to turn all good into evil and if He could go that far then why not simply forgive all sin and hold no one accountable? Punishing the guilty and sparing the innocent is more than just a law, it's a moral principle.

It is also fruitless to explain the problem away by saying that some good has come out of Jesus' alleged sacrificial death, for just because something good might come about from an unjust act that does not make the act itself just.

1 Timothy 2:5 states: "There is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

The task of a mediator is usually to bring two sides together and take charge of the interests of both the offended and the offender. He doesn't take upon himself the guilt of the offender nor the wrath and fury of the offended, for he is to be the one seeking to reconcile between both parties as a third party member. But apparently that isn't the case in light of the atonement.

Argument no. 2: The Atonement Invalidates The True Concept of Forgiveness
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If someone owes you a thousand dollars and you wanted to "forgive this debt" that would mean that you would have to forgo the thousand dollars and absorb your losses. If Kevin owes you a thousand dollars and then you tell Kevin you don't have to pay it anymore and that John could pay it instead, that doesn't mean that you have truly forgiven Kevin's debt. Kevin's debt is still there even though it's not Kevin paying it anymore. The only way for you to TRULY forgive Kevin's debt is for you to absorb your losses. Similarly, the only way for God to TRULY forgive us our debt is to let go of the debt all together. Now we don't say that God "absorbs His losses" because God is independent of all creatures and has no "losses", but the logic is the same in that God would have to forgo the debt all together in order to TRULY forgive us our debts. However, in Christianity we don't see that because Jesus takes the debt and pays it.
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Argument no. 3: Jesus’ Vicarious Death Causes Problems For The Trinity (which is supposedly a description of God’s Holy Nature)
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Now most mainstream Christians are of the view that all the three persons in the Godhead and not only the Father required propitiation (that is they required to be satisfied from the problem of sin) because if it was only the Father then the Son and Holy Spirit wouldn’t be as Holy as the Father, which would be problematic.

Now since all three persons required propitiation and since the wages of sin is spiritual death, how exactly did Jesus propitiate himself? He is supposed to be both the subject and object of propitiation. How does one satisfy his own wrath by punishing himself? Also, if Jesus is God and he must spiritually die and become separated from God, how does he become separated from himself? Despite having two separate natures he is still one person according to orthodox and mainstream Christianity. So how did he separate from himself? It appears that Christians say that he was separated from God the Father and that would count as a spiritual death. I’ll go with that idea for the sake of argument.

John Calvin and other reformed scholars such as Charles Hodge, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, John Piper and others insist that mere corporeal death wouldn’t have been sufficient, but that Jesus during his hours on the cross must have truly been separate from God the Father and that his soul endured such trauma.

But if Jesus were truly separate from God the Father for those few hours then doesn’t that mean that there was a temporary break and disconnect in the Trinity? Didn’t that intercommunion in the Godhead temporarily stop? Isn’t that a change in God, which Malachi 3:6 says cannot happen since God does not change?

Also, doesn’t Jesus dying and suffering for us mean that he is more worthy of honor and praise than the Father who only sent him? Does the commander who sends his soldier to die in a mission that saved the lives of millions deserve and get the same level of honor as the soldier sent to die? Surely not! The one who does the dirty work is at a much higher level in terms of praise and honour than the one who sent him to do the dirty work. Surely the Son feels a bit closer to us than the Father while the Father feels a bit more transcendent than the Son? So COULD (not should, but COULD) we honestly we love the Father AS MUCH as the son? Doesn’t the atonement raise problematic concerns for God’s supposedly Holy Triune nature?
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UNQUOTE

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-4 ESV)

And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 YLT)

Saturday, February 8, 2014

The Descent of Man

This picture is taken from the Bill Nye Ken Ham debate. It is from Ken Ham, showing a summary of the Bible from creation to consummation.

Creation
Genesis 1:1 - 2:3

Corruption
Genesis 3:1-24

Catastrophe
Genesis 7:11-12

Confusion
Genesis 11:1-9

Christ
Genesis 3:15
Micah 5:2
Daniel 9:24-26

Cross
Psalm 22

Consummation
Revelation 21:1

Saturday, April 28, 2012

Interesting Questions That A Muslim Asked On Atonement

Watched a debate on Youtube. A  Muslim asked a Christian these questions and the Christian was not able to answer properly.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18 KJV)
Muslim: Is this justice? An innocent person is sent to be punished for the sins of the guilty.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16 KJV)
Muslim: If the Father loves the world and loves the Son, is it not selfish of Him to send the Son, instead of sending Himself?